Gilad vs Lenni
zgrams at zgrams.zundelsite.org
zgrams at zgrams.zundelsite.org
Mon Mar 12 15:26:38 EST 2007
This is a very revealing email exchange between two Jews, Gilad
Atzmon and Lenni Brenner. Gilad is anti-Zionist, Lenni is
New York, February 9, 2007
Lenni: Hi, Gilad. People tell me so many things about you, that I
decided to get some answers straight from the horse's mouth, as we
Gilad: Hi Lenni, I do appreciate it!
Lenni: Are you a Christian?
Gilad: Not that it is your business (in case you didn't know,
Christianity is not pedophilia, it is allowed these days), however, I
am an ex Jew. I didn't formally join any organised religion and this
includes: Islam or Christianity as well as your UK Bundist friends'
version of Talmudic Marxism (a religion rather than an ideology).
Lenni: Was Jesus human only, or divine in whole or part?
Gilad: What a pathetic question, Lenni. How am I supposed to know?
Do you know? Having been trained in philosophy, I will try to help
you to refine your question.
What you want to ask is whether I BELIEVE that Jesus was divine.
My answer, Mr. Brenner, is very very simple. I do not engage in
questions having to do with divinity. And my own belief is irrelevant
because I am not religious. Yet, I do respect the FACT that very many
people around me believe that Jesus was divine. Unlike you and your
UK friends, I do respect other people's beliefs. In fact I respect
any form of spiritual activity. I admire people who are inspired by
divinity. I admire Torah Jews, who are the only noticeable Jewish
collective resistance to Zionism. In case you ask yourself where I
find divinity, my answer is very simple: Coltrane, Stravinsky and
Bach, but this changes often.
Lenni: Was he (Jesus) the messiah? Is he coming again? Do you accept
the New Testament as divinely inspired?
Gilad: Lenni, do I look like the Pope? How am I supposed to know
whether Jesus was the Messiah? Again, do you know the answers? My
affair with Jesus is rather metaphysical. I regard Jesus as a
critical ethical awakening. For me Christ is all about loving your
neighbour. Jesus is the birth of western universal humanism (as we
know it). Following Hegel, I am inspired by the notion of Otherness,
and 'Master Slave Dialectic'. However, the notion of Otherness is
nothing but Christ's heritage. I suggest that you think about it for
I would like to mention as well that your dismissal of Christianity
and religion in general is rather disconcerting. However, without me
being Christian, I must insist to remind you and your half a dozen UK
followers that the days when Jews chased Christians are over.
Lenni: Did you write:
"I would suggest that perhaps we should face it once and for all; the
Jews were responsible for the killing of Jesus who, by the way, was
himself a Palestinian Jew. But then two questions should be asked:
1 - How is it that people living today feel accountable or chased for
a crime committed by their great great ancestors almost 2,000 ago? I
assume that those Jews who get angry when blamed for killing Jesus
are those who identify themselves with Jesus's killers. Those who
would commit this murderous act today.
Those Jews are called Zionists and they are already advancing into
their sixth decade of inhuman crimes against the Palestinian people
and the Arab world. Zionism, for those who do not know, is a
repetition of the darkest age of the Jewish Biblical era."
Gilad: Yes indeed, these are my words and I stand by them.
Lenni: Does any living Jew have any responsibility for Jesus's death?
Gilad: Lenni, did you lose your capability to grasp a very simple
text? I would really like you to present just how my text implies
that I accuse contemporary Jews for killing Christ or for being
responsible for it. In fact the text says the complete opposite. I
ask: "How is it that people living today feel accountable or chased
for a crime committed by their great great ancestors almost 2,000
ago?" In other words, I find it astonishing that people today happen
to be offended by such accusations.
Lenni: Am I responsible? Do I have to atone for his death? Do I have
to accept that he rose from the dead?
Gilad: Lenni, do I look like a shrink? I really leave this question
to you. It is you who should answer whether you 'feel' responsible or
not. By no means does my text imply that you or anyone else is
responsible. The text says that those who are offended are "those who
identify themselves with Jesus's killers. Those who would commit this
murderous act today." Accordingly, it is you who should ask yourself
whether you would commit such a crime today.
Once again, you may want to refine your question. The question you
want to ask is whether I BELIEVE that you are responsible.
No is the answer. I don't BELIEVE that you are responsible; moreover
I KNOW that you are not responsible. Nevertheless, my text implies as
well that you MAY not be as innocent as you wish to be.
In my text I stress that "I assume that those Jews who get angry when
blamed for killing Jesus are those who identify themselves with
Jesus's killers. Those who would commit this murderous act today."
Seemingly, you are 'angry', you feel accused of something without
even being accused of anything. On the face of it, the question you
have to ask yourself is whether you identify yourself with Christ's
killers? I am pretty sure that you don't and you shouldn't be.
However, I must tell you that the cyber kangaroo courts that you and
your friends hold on a daily basis reminds me too much of the
Sanhedrin. I suggest that you think about that as well for a while.
Somehow you and those like you know what is good for the
Palestinians, the Jews, the working class. I occasionally ask myself
what it is that makes you so confident. You and your followers indeed
have managed to silence some of the most interesting intellects
around just because you do not approve their politics or religion. I
am afraid to inform you Lenni, that these days are over. Your six UK
disciples are working day and night for more than three years doing
their very best to silence me, I am afraid to tell you that they
fail. In fact they achieve the opposite instead.
I do not feel sorry for them because they have really zero reputation
to defend. But I really feel sorry for you Lenni. You are an
important contributor to the Israeli-Palestinian discourse. Your
books are more than valuable. You have a reputation to defend. I
would like to see you in the midst of the discourse rather than
surrounded by the last shadows of echoes of tribal socialism.
Just before closing this email I will sharpen the differences between us.
Unlike you Lenni, I believe in freedom of speech. Unlike you Lenni, I
am against gatekeeping, I am also against any form of dogmatic or
monolithic discourses of hegemony. Unlike you and your friends, I
believe that every human subject is entitled to human rights. Unlike
you Lenni, I approve of the Hamas. Unlike you Lenni, I understand
that working class politics has very little relevance in Arabia.
Yet, I have never tried to silence anyone, on the contrary. I will
fight for your right to speak your mind.
Lenni: Thanks, in advance, for your time and trouble in this regard,
Gilad: It was my entire pleasure.
All the best
atzmon at mac.com
BrennerL21 at aol.com
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